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Post Icon WARPAINTER's how-to balance the Knight

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Chunk of Change


Emperor of Ending

799 Posts

Joined 2013-06-12

February 19, 2014 23:36 (almost 2 years ago)

Let me start by saying I LOVE the Knight the most despite him being in my opinion - and the opinion of many other posters - the most underpowered hero atm.

I've spent hundreds of hours of gameplay on my Knight and grinded him some amazing gear and fought the toughest castles out there before the patch and now after. So as an experienced lvl 30 Knight let me offer my thoughts on how to bring this bad boy back to glory.

No.1 most important Make the Knight gain mana when out of combat like the Archer and Mage do. Forcing them to get in and fight against the current meta of Boss rooms overpacked to gain mana to use skills is just too hard. It's also frustrating to have the mana to use a skill one second, get silenced or stunned temporarily and in that time have lost the 2-3 mana that you needed to cast the skill meaning you have to go back into the danger zone to get it.

No.2 Give the Knight more range... in particular make lashing flames the same range as the Archers headshot/volley or the Mages fireball/deathbolt. Currently Archers and Mages can aggro boss rooms without entering them using these skills, giving them a distinct advantage over the knight class. The knight should have an equal opportunity to do this strategy.
I also think Flame Slash should be changed into an alternate long ranged ability... like a fissure ability or weapon throw ability.
While I don't want to make the knight into a kite all the mobs class at the moment he has to be seeing as though players are dumping all their mobs and traps in one spot. Also there are times when you're out of health pots and have taken a beating, you're on a slither of health, and you need to a long range skill to win as any melee will kill you. I know we have heal strike in this situation but having another long range ability would open up a different build and add a level of skill to knight gameplay.

No.3 OK it is super annoying lashing a creature then starting my smite skill only to have the animation last way too long and get stunned out of using the skill. Then I've lost the mana to cast the skill so I have to run away from the horde until my lash is off cd and try again. As you can see the most important issue is my mana degenerating, but if you choose not to fix that you'll need to remove the long cast animations of smite and king dragon slash or make them uninterruptable. Why you ask? I get where you're coming from... the Archers headshot and the Mages deathbolt have fairly long animations... let's be fair and make the Knights smite animation the same. Well the problem is the Knight is MELEE and has to be in the danger zone to cast smite. Not to mention half the minions I lash seem to be able to walk away from me while I'm mid smite animation so I don't hit anything anyway. And king dragon slash needs mana to cast so you have to have been in the danger zone to get the mana then you're on a timer to get yourself to safety and use king dragon slash because your mana starts to empty itself. Just makes for a frustrating experience.

That's it. I think these 3 things would make playing the knight viable again. Let me know any other players thoughts and ideas, thanks for reading.

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Chunk of Change



459 Posts

Joined 2013-09-02

February 20, 2014 01:20 (almost 2 years ago)

while i agree with mana regen, giving the knight more range would not fit his playstyle.

My take on it:

-mana regen instead of degen
-lashing fire gives temporary fire resistance
-more melee defence maybe?

we could go with these for now. maybe we could test it out on the Test Server?

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High Roller



3,509 Posts

Joined 2013-08-31

February 20, 2014 02:03 (almost 2 years ago)

I'll start by saying I have been playing only the Knight after the wipe. I have constantly run into Castle time's where I am mere seconds from being able to beat their time. Due to AoE? Due to a last second dash? Due to them beating their head against the thing for 10 hours till they got an obscene time?(I wouldn't rule that 1 out lol)

I feel pretty tough at my whole whopping level 12. I hate healing strike. If it actually did damage I might use it more but I just don't feel like I can give up the other damage skills. I load out with charge, punt, smite, and fiery weapon. I do ok at Castle's my level probably 2 star's 70% of the time, 30% = death.

I don't disagree with any of your idea's but I'll try to offer more on the same points:

No 1 :What if his mana degeneration was less severe? What if his mana gaining abilities granted more?

No 2: What if he had a dodge type move? What if he were a little tougher? What if charge moved him as far as headshot and knocked away all OTHER targets so you could fight your primary target for X amount of time?

No 3: I got nothing there.... maybe temporary stun immunity on cast?

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1,374 Posts

Joined 2013-11-02

February 20, 2014 08:34 (almost 2 years ago)

I doubt many people have level 30 geared knights, So it's hard for a lot of people to give feedback from experience.

No1: There is a reason for degenerating mana besides "Nerfing the Knight"

Diablo 3 Barbarian uses a degenerating mana pool called "Fury"
Blizzard reasoning for this: His "fury resource" is designed to drive the player forward, like a Barbarian, because he's very tough and is a close-quarters combatant. He wants to move forward, because the mechanic is, 'I have a lot of fury, which helps me deliver a lot of damage, but I'm going to lose it just sitting around.' It makes him very aggressive, which is what we wanted out of the character. So that was driven by [the concept of] how do we want this guy to play. Very aggressively, and hence we built this mechanic."

I assume they are going for something similar which inherently I see nothing wrong with, But this game is overflowing with balance issues couple of which are the the mana management is horrendous and things like:
-Player see large group
-Player wants initiate AOE large group (killing weak things and weakening strong things)
-Archer can initiate with volley (Everything is fine) but a knight has to kill half the minions to get enough mana to use King Dragon Slash. (Inherent disadvantage for knight)

TL;DR I'm fine with degenerating mana concept if the game was balanced.

No 2. I don't want the knight more ranged. (New female hero is medium range so knight is the close range hero). Balance him to be effective at close range. (Though I do hate how archer can agro with any ability or auto attack and knight has 3 choices, Lashing flames, Charge(which is not so good) or His face)

No 3. Yep Smite needs a shorter animation, But least Smite is used! Most of his skills are ignored or just flat out uncompetitive. (Same with all the hero's skills)

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Foot Soldier

145 Posts

Joined 2012-09-06

February 22, 2014 03:56 (almost 2 years ago)

I leveled the knight to 30 during alpha. #3 I agree with.

#1 and #2, more range on abilities and mana regen outside combat, would change the class to something different. It wouldn't be the MQEL knight anymore.

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Chunkier Chunk of Change


Foot Soldier

191 Posts

Joined 2014-01-13

February 22, 2014 06:30 (almost 2 years ago)

Ok here are my opinions

  1. I like the mana degeneration. Like William said (I think the second post above me's icon says William) the degenerating mana is much like rage and encourages the knight to fight more, if he didn't have this people would just run around with dragon strike and healing blade, waiting for the cooldowns, much like what archers do with volley.

  2. The knight definitely doesn't need more ranged. We have two dedicated ranged specialists and are about to get an in between. A dedicated melee character is a good thing to have. I don't even take his ranged skill and I do fine w/out it.

  3. Smite does need a shorter animation time, its funny when even Dr. Skulls are able to get away because the strike time takes so long.

The biggest problem with the knight right now isn't how he plays, its that his skill set is sub par at best. Two of his skills are just repeats of eachother. (Slash and Flame Slash) Jab is just useless, its basically just another melee attack in between regular attacks. His single stun (kick I think?) is ok, though punt stuns AND deals damage. Charge is basically a toss up on whether its useful or not. Sometimes it works really well, other times not so well.

The rest of his skills are okay, but rarely match the utility of the archers or mages abilities. To better balance the knight, he probably needs a few new skills.

One I recommend is a temporary invincibility move that makes you move slow (or freezes you) with a long cool down. (Archers dodge roll would still be better lol) I think it would suit him being the face tank that he is.

Another could be a temporary magic damage defense buff, similar to the mages shield. Feel free to post any other suggestions, There's quite a bit of room for improvement.

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High Roller



3,509 Posts

Joined 2013-08-31

February 22, 2014 17:49 (almost 2 years ago)

I agree that some of his skills aren't so great but really where it hurts is trying to match damage with the other classes. A lot of the time's when I'd try to beat a timer i would be a few seconds slower. If he changes too much he will become Over Powered.

I use Charge, Punt, Smite and Flame Sword enchant forget what that 1 is called. I think I do well enough with it, just suits my style to play more aggressively I don't like the Leash pull kill 1 target. It's a fine strategy to use and other people are welcome to it.

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Legit Fan


Foot Soldier

362 Posts

Joined 2013-08-28

February 22, 2014 18:10 (almost 2 years ago)

They should exchange the archer base block chance with the knight one. Knights have to take hits to actually dish out damages. Its atm the only class that have to do that. However they built it like the other ones. At best, they made healing strike mandatory, and not a really fun fact.

They have to find a way to compensate for that. Either he has to deal more damages or be more resistant or have more regen or block chance or whatever. But there has to be a compensation. Or take away the mana degen i don't know...

Moreover, lots of his skills are just redundant like MIGHTY126302 said... so yeah... Knight is really underpowered compared to his friends.

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Chunkier Chunk of Change



7 Posts

Joined 2013-10-31

February 22, 2014 19:03 (almost 2 years ago)

Underpowered...seriously? It depends on gear, play style, mobs you are facing. My knight is lvl 17 at this moment and he is pretty much tank and spank paladin. Face tanking Zekes and healing up. When i feel like easy mode i play with knight.

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2 Posts

Joined 2013-07-02

February 26, 2014 22:45 (almost 2 years ago)

I feel the Knight needs more tankyness.

my friends mage at the same level has more armor then i do and deals a TON more damage then i do.

My tank sure should not have massive ranged attacks and stuff, but i should be a lot more tanky then i am now, and my abilities should hit harder then they do.

i had so much trouble beating dragon having to be up in its face, being soft as hell and doing poor damage. my friends mage too dragon 2 levels lower then the dungeon first try with only using 2 pots on the whole dungeon because of range and teleport.

the Knight feels underpowered, and too squishy for a tank.

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